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I'm with the "majority" here that think the new Ford products are the best they've ever been. The only thing holding back the Fiesta and the Focus from being class leaders is that stupid DCT. I know they probably spent millions of dollars designing it, but just plop a traditional 6 speed auto in it for god's sake! And what's with them using a 5 speed manual transmission still? They have a 6 speed manual in the ST and with the new 1L Ecoboost, so why not make it the standard manual transmission? Give us that extra gear!

 

Those are the two major things that I fault Ford on though. Also, if they would just offer a longer warranty like most of the Korean brands do, I'd be over the moon.

 

It would be nice if they had a 6 speed in the non-ST versions of the Fiesta and Focus, but I can understand why they don't. I would assume most buyers opt for the automatic, putting the manual transmission development on the back burner or bottom of the to-do list.

 

A better warranty would always be nice.

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Can we start calling those "Takata marks"?  

The Fusion rear seat is no worse than the VW CC, I'm 5'10" and fit just fine, my friend who is 6'2" also fit just fine. Although our heads were close to the roof it wasn't uncomfortable. I think some

Tore into the front carpets on a Volvo V70 a weekend ago and found something similar...the floor was covered in quarters...split it with my friend.  Covered junkyard entry fee for the next few months!

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Oh yes I forgot about the Mazda 6, that's a beauty too. Most if not all of the current Mazda line looks great. A friend of mine just bought a CX-5, a very attractive small SUV and with a 6 speed manual.

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Oh yes I forgot about the Mazda 6, that's a beauty too. Most if not all of the current Mazda line looks great. A friend of mine just bought a CX-5, a very attractive small SUV and with a 6 speed manual.

 

I would agree. Lately I've been thinking about a compact SUV over a sedan as my next vehicle and the Mazda CX-5 is at the top of my list. It's the cheapest to purchase new, has competitive power production compared to the competition, has one of the best ground clearances available, great styling, best fuel economy, and Mazda has some of the lowest ownership costs of cars on the market.

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I would agree. Lately I've been thinking about a compact SUV over a sedan as my next vehicle and the Mazda CX-5 is at the top of my list. It's the cheapest to purchase new, has competitive power production compared to the competition, has one of the best ground clearances available, great styling, best fuel economy, and Mazda has some of the lowest ownership costs of cars on the market.

 

Do yourself a favor and get the 2.5L, 2.0 is a dog even with the 6 speed manual.

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Do yourself a favor and get the 2.5L, 2.0 is a dog even with the 6 speed manual.

 

Of course! More power equals more fun haha. Plus I want AWD and xenon headlights, which are pretty much only available at the top of the line.

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Something to think about:

When Ford, Chevy, and Dodge were in a financial bind, Ford was the only of the three to not take Obama's buyout program. This saved $30 billion American tax dollars. Due to this decision, they had to start over in order to appeal. Adding a euro style to their vehicles may possibly have saved them from bankruptcy. And no matter what you think of the cars, transmissions, and warranties, they've survived by their own means. Seeing as how Chevy took the biggest chunk of the buyout, and has since had over 30 million recalls, I'd say Ford must be doing something right.

And for the record, I love the new stylings.

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Ford just sold their mistakes to avoid bailouts.

 

Volvo, Land Rover, Jaguar, Aston Martin.

 

Rather than focusing on Ford, Lincoln, and Mercury, and investing the money they used to buy those mistakes, they could have done a ton of work to possibly still have Mercury here, and have Lincolns that were still considered world class luxury.

 

Ford had no choice but to goto European Style, since Ford of Europe was doing great things while Ford of America was cost cutting.

 

Had General Motors handle the sale of some of their other brands like Hummer and Saab, they probably would have been better off.

 

Also, General Motors and Chrysler had they not received a bailout and went belly up, that would have been a huge strain on companies like Lear Seating and Visteon, as well as many other OEM suppliers and manufactures, Ford would have been put in a strain themselves, and would have failed too eventually.

 

Source: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-10-09/ford-would-have-shut-without-auto-bailouts-rattner-says.html

 

So, I do support Chrysler and General Motors as a company. I would never wish them bad luck. Because if they DID fail, there goes thousands of jobs, and a huge depression would follow with the amount of jobs that would have been lost. I may not like a style, but I still am glad to see Ford doing well, I hope GM manages to survive with these recalls, which they probably will, and Chrysler too. In the end, all big three employ tons of thousands of hard working people, and those people in turn support families and loved ones.

 

Also, Ford has had their fair share of recalls too, not as bad, but still had them.

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I don't know what you mean about rubbish, but I guess it all depends on your opinion. I sat in a Fiesta a few months ago and liked it. I thought it felt pretty good for a sub-compact economy car, and I was surprised that I was able to fit comfortably inside being 6' 2" (although no one in the back seat would have fit). I think Europe has pretty good interiors. If you compare a '99 VW Passat with a '99 Ford Taurus it's night and day difference. The Ford isn't bad, but the VW is better.

 

I don't think the numbers lie, though. The Fiesta is the best selling sub-compact in the world right now, and the ST model has won a lot of accolades. The Focus is selling very well too. The Fusion competes with the Camry, Accord, and Altima the way the Taurus never could have in the late '90's and early 2000's. Things have only been getting better with Ford's lineup, so I don't think they're going about things wrong by bringing some European genes into the equation.

 

My dad has (or had... he sent it with my sister to grad school) a Fiesta. Everything about that car is horrid save for the build quality (and the Mexicans are the ones who got that right). I literally can't sit in the car for more than a half hour, it's so ergonomically backwards. I can't drive it at all. Not that the car is even remotely inviting - so much hard plastic, and it's textured to look as cheap and as hard as it is. I'm talking late-'90s Chevy/Pontiac levels of interior quality; it really is akin to a Cavalier, except the Fiesta's dash is somehow even uglier. I can't believe it's a price-point issue, old Escorts were better than this.

 

Take a look at the Fusion and then the competition, compare it to anything in its class and tell me you wouldn't take the Fusion, only other one I would consider is the Accord. Malibu is fat and bloated, Camry is well boring as hell, Sonata no offense Brian is ugly as hell, and the Altima is the same as the Camry...disposable car.

I would never buy something that purports to be a family car if someone over 6' tall can't fit in the back seat. (Maybe few if any of the others can either, but this is on Ford.) I consider it utterly asinine that not a single Ford car built today, not even the Taurus, can do that - unless it's a Fiesta hatchback driven by someone short. There is, amusingly enough, more headroom in the back of one of those than anything else, although the front-seat occupant has to be under 5'6" for it to do any good. This "four-door coupe" business was horse-hockey when it was a new idea and the sooner it's forgotten the better.

 

Something to think about:

When Ford, Chevy, and Dodge were in a financial bind, Ford was the only of the three to not take Obama's buyout program. This saved $30 billion American tax dollars. Due to this decision, they had to start over in order to appeal. Adding a euro style to their vehicles may possibly have saved them from bankruptcy. And no matter what you think of the cars, transmissions, and warranties, they've survived by their own means. Seeing as how Chevy took the biggest chunk of the buyout, and has since had over 30 million recalls, I'd say Ford must be doing something right.

And for the record, I love the new stylings.

Ford didn't have to take a bailout because they mortgaged all their assets while they still could. Whether it was astute financial foresight or simple luck, it certainly wasn't because their cars of the time were that good.

 

GM's bankruptcy was a quarter century in the making - the company just was so big that it took 25 years and a massive recession for anyone to notice that it had been destroyed by its own bureaucracy.

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I don't know that Volvo, Jaguar, Aston Martin and Land Rover were mistakes. Volvo, Jaguar and Land Rover weren't doing all that great when Ford bought them, and when Ford sold them, they were either a little better off or where they were to begin with when Ford bought them. Ford didn't invest a lot of money into any of those auto companies while under Ford's ownership. Jaguar got Ford engines, Volvo stayed pretty much the same, as did Land Rover and Aston Martin. Ford didn't put a bunch of money into those companies. Volvo is doing better now, but was still bought and resold once after Ford was finished with them.

 

I don't really care that Mercury is gone, to be honest. There wasn't enough differentiation between Ford and Mercury to make the brand worthwhile. As far as Lincoln goes, there is some room for improvement, but I think a vast part of the problem Lincoln is experiencing is poor marketing and advertising, but that's a different story. Ford invested money where it was needed - in Ford. Ford is the biggest profit generator for FoMoCo, so it makes sense to spend money there to make improvements, which is what Ford did. It's also worth noting that while Ford only cut one brand, Mercury, it took GM a government bailout and cutting Saab, Hummer, Pontiac, and Saturn to achieve the same success Ford did.

 

The European style was not a result of cost-cutting. It was a smart marketing move on Ford's behalf in order to stay competitive and keep their vehicles popular. During the brief period roughly between 2007 and 2010/2011 Ford had not yet introduced the European characteristics into their line of vehicles, but was still getting better and making improvements over where they were before. The trend in the auto industry has been moving European for many years now, so I don't buy that Ford "had" to go European. They chose to because it was the right move. Buick has stayed more "American" and they're not doing so great because they haven't changed or innovated their brand.

 

As far as the bailout is concerned, I understand and appreciate that people were able to keep their jobs as a result of government funding to keep the companies afloat. I don't like that the American people had to help make that happen as a result of poor business operations, and it seems ironic that the people that paid for the bailout did so in order to keep their jobs. I am glad the companies are (mostly) in a better place now, and I'm glad that a large number of people aren't out of work. However, I commend Ford for owning their mistakes and making it work without government support, and as a result, becoming stronger than they were before. I also commend Ford for their intense focus on customer safety. They may have had recalls, but they did not cover up the safety defects that GM did, and they certainly don't wait years and years to recall their vehicles.

 

So while I understand why the bailout had to happen for Chrysler and GM, I applaud Ford's efforts for forgoing the government help.

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My dad has (or had... he sent it with my sister to grad school) a Fiesta. Everything about that car is horrid save for the build quality (and the Mexicans are the ones who got that right). I literally can't sit in the car for more than a half hour, it's so ergonomically backwards. I can't drive it at all. Not that the car is even remotely inviting - so much hard plastic, and it's textured to look as cheap and as hard as it is. I'm talking late-'90s Chevy/Pontiac levels of interior quality; it really is akin to a Cavalier, except the Fiesta's dash is somehow even uglier. I can't believe it's a price-point issue, old Escorts were better than this.

 

 

It's okay that you don't like the Fiesta; you don't have to like it. I don't think it's a horrid car, and my (short) time spent sitting in the front seat of one was of pleasant surprise. I was excited to see Ford bring it back in such a way that made it feel greater than the original creation ever could have been conceived to be. Being that it's the best selling subcompact in the world simply shows that Ford is doing something right. Not everyone has to like it, which is fine. 

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I'm 6' 2" and I make it a point each year at the Chicago auto show to try out the newly updated cars. There is nothing in Ford's model line in which I can't sit in the back seat (third rows in SUVs notwithstanding... ).

In fact, we've got a photo taken during the '09 Chicago plant tour of myself and another individual who is well over 6' tall and heavyset in the driver side seats of a new Taurus SHO- I had the front seat set pretty far backwards to make it my own comfortable position, and he was seated easily behind me with no head, shoulder, or knee room issues.

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As I stated above, I'm 6' 2" and I fit fine in the driver's seat of the Fiesta. The back seat, with the driver's seat adjust to my liking, is not very spacious, but I wouldn't expect it to be any different in a subcompact car.

I have some trouble fitting in the back seat of the new Fusion, but it's a non-issue for me mostly.

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The Fusion rear seat is no worse than the VW CC, I'm 5'10" and fit just fine, my friend who is 6'2" also fit just fine. Although our heads were close to the roof it wasn't uncomfortable. I think some people are just too spoiled and expect everything to be perfect. How about you go sit in a jump seat in the back of a Ranger and then you can complain about lack of room.

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I did for many years, thank you very much.

 

I wasn't aware it was out of line to not want one's head jammed into the ceiling of a car.

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Which seems to be your own unique experience with newer cars, Stocker. I personally need a lot more head and leg room than the average adult to sit comfortably in a car, yet I haven't come across the issues that you've brought up in Ford's recent offerings nor with most competing brands either.

Ask Kevin about previously getting myself into a Fiat 500C and Scion iQ. :ph34r::P

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Something to think about:

When Ford, Chevy, and Dodge were in a financial bind, Ford was the only of the three to not take Obama's buyout program.

 

And what of the Bush "buyout program"?

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And what of the Bush "buyout program"?

That was Obama's program, the first of many stupid ideas dealing with the automotive world and its regulations. That's neither here nor there but the CARS program really screwed up the used car market, and the media loved the fact that all these perfectly good "inefficient" vehicles were being destroyed.

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Linmpg1014_zps59126be3.jpg

 

Way  off topic but others did it first: :notworthy:

OK today's drive down the interstate, 30 miles with evening traffic, then up the local streets to home. Regular gas but I do it that way and that is another discussion.

 

No issues with room, leg, head, hip, or whatever. Had this car 3 years and 25K miles. If I keep it another 4 years, and put it at $100 per month for depreciation, then it reaches zero $ at that time and nearly 90K miles.

 

But it is an "old coot car". Very practical, low cost, quiet, smooth, and loads of TORQUE!

Hot Rod TAURUS!

-chart-

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And what of the Bush "buyout program"?

Don't waste your time. Anyone who spins the bullsh*t that it was a "buyout" is too ******* stupid to even bother engaging on the subject.

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Thats TWICE Brian.

You're awfully brave from behind a keyboard 6 states away.

While you're so busy getting hung up on vocabulary, intelligent folks are able to infer that tax dollars were used in order to save a publicly traded company.

I don't know what your problem with me is, but get bent.

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Thats TWICE Brian. You're awfully brave from behind a keyboard 6 states away. While you're so busy getting hung up on vocabulary, intelligent folks are able to infer that tax dollars were used in order to save a publicly traded company. I don't know what your problem with me is, but get bent.

:huh: OK... Come at me, bro.

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I must ask, why is this continuing to perpetuate in the 'Junkyard Finds' thread?

 

If this is going to become a mudslinging event, I feel it would be more appropriate to take it to a new thread, or a place more suitable.

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No politics please guys. Just stop. Tcca has a politics thread-go there.

This demo derby has some great junkyard candidates!!! Heck so does the parking lot LOL

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