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Hyundai Overstates Fuel Economy Claims

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Hyundai Retreats on Fuel-Economy Claims

Hyundai Motor Co. and Kia Motors Corp. overstated the fuel economy for more than a third of the vehicles they sold in the U.S. in the last two years, an embarrassing concession by two of the fastest growing car makers in the U.S.

Oops.

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Hyundai Assurance (that we'll deceive you).

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Well, it's not like the Ecoboost engines have exactly lived up to their mileage claims either... So mum is the word...

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Not like I'd ever buy one anyways, although their gas mileage may improve as they rust and fall apart.

Agreed.

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I have several coworkers who recently bought new Kias. They have now been informed. ;)

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Well, it's not like the Ecoboost engines have exactly lived up to their mileage claims either... So mum is the word...

Thats cause folk are having too much fun with the whole, I have a turbo... concept :P

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That's why the 1.6l 2012 Kia soul I drive only gets about 24 combined.... Well when i drive it. It's the girlfriends car. Also I'm used to the duratec which always has power. 1.6l naturally aspirated means no power anytime... It's a 6 speed too and stays in 5th most of the time.

People like to actually drive their cars.. That's why a lot don't live up to their milage... Depends who's driving. I notice my Tec gets its advertised combined milage, maybe 1 less. New cars seem to be a lot more optimistic about milage than older cars. Probably because they are forced to get better milage by the government and can't really quite achieve it.

Edited by breeves002

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That's why the 1.6l 2012 Kia soul I drive only gets about 24 combined.... Well when i drive it. It's the girlfriends car. Also I'm used to the duratec which always has power. 1.6l naturally aspirated means no power anytime... It's a 6 speed too and stays in 5th most of the time.

People like to actually drive their cars.. That's why a lot don't live up to their milage... Depends who's driving. I notice my Tec gets its advertised combined milage, maybe 1 less. New cars seem to be a lot more optimistic about milage than older cars. Probably because they are forced to get better milage by the government and can't really quite achieve it.

Depends on lots of things.

I had my grandson write down the MPG per the car's calucaltion. Each time we stopped, he would write down the reading and reset the mpg. This for my Lin Cont rated at 25 highway. All interstate driving in July at 90-100 degrees. However, we did not have any wind except for about 10 miles in a severe thunder storm. Wind, hills, and weight are drags on the mpg.

-chart-

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What was your average speed? That is pretty hard to believe coming from the conti's v8.

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PROTIP: Using the Trip Computer isn't all that accurate. My Taurus always said it averaged about 21 Mpg, but it actually got about 18 after doing the maths.

Each fillup I log the trip odometer, gallons, price, and the date. That way I can enter it all into Excel. My car averages about 30 Mpg the way I drive. That's not bad in the Focus. There's days I have s**tty MPG at 24 Mpg, then great days where I get 37.

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Our '12 Jetta TDI gets 47mpg when I'm driving, 44mpg when the wife drives.... and I'm the one with the lead foot. I floor it from a stop, get to my cruising speed, and cruise. And I don't brake in curves.

I had new tires installed a couple days ago. The worn out Contis were averaging 46mpg. Once the new Yokohamas were installed, mpg dropped to 39. They inflated the tires to the factory spec 32psi. I'm gonna pump them up to 36psi, which is where I kept the old tires.

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PROTIP: Using the Trip Computer isn't all that accurate. My Taurus always said it averaged about 21 Mpg, but it actually got about 18 after doing the maths.

Each fillup I log the trip odometer, gallons, price, and the date. That way I can enter it all into Excel. My car averages about 30 Mpg the way I drive. That's not bad in the Focus. There's days I have s**tty MPG at 24 Mpg, then great days where I get 37.

Actually for me it is, my Info Center MPG is always within 0.5 MPG of actual when the math is done.

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Actually for me it is, my Info Center MPG is always within 0.5 MPG of actual when the math is done.

Actually the car's calcul is more accurate and I have compared several times.

Checking at one fillup is variable depending on how you fill, so one needs to have at least conc tanks together.

Starting in 1995 through 2001 I made repeated trips, from 1200 miles to 3500 miles round trip every 2 months to a maxium of 11 in one year.

Boring does not really capture, I-70 from Columbus O, to St Louis. or there to Louisville on I-64 for example. MO and KS does not get better.

Now, the mpg can be quite different from one time of day to another on the same road, same tank of gas. Wind can take a toll, even a side wind.

I usually find the first couple of hours early in the am about +2mpg vs later in the day. I always related that to cooler and less likely to have wind.

But then, I just kept score to keep the boring down.

And one more thing. I have never had a new tank of gas of the same grade, make any difference.

Just this old coot's experience.

-chart-

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Hey you drove through st. louis! That's where I live :D

Lemme know if you ever roll through again hah!

Isn't it true that with warmer air, you get better gas milage, but with warmer air you also get less power? Or is it worse milage and power? I guess if you accelerate at the same rate the cooler air would give you better milage.

Edited by breeves002

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Hey you drove through st. louis! That's where I live :D

Lemme know if you ever roll through again hah!

Isn't it true that with warmer air, you get better gas milage, but with warmer air you also get less power? Or is it worse milage and power? I guess if you accelerate at the same rate the cooler air would give you better milage.

Last time I Was through St. L was 2000 but that was in a U-Haul 24' loaded to the max and towing a '98 Taurus. I was running it flat out on I-270 on to I-70 on to Effingham where it spent the night. Before 2000, arriving up I-64 and across the bridge I-70 in town, was under re-construction and a real pain. I learned to just stay on I-64 West until it ends and then R40 to I-70. I have no reason to be in St. L or KS City again. Frist grandson born in Chanute KS, but no one knows where that is anyway. Now have 2 grandsons and they are one mile away as the road runs, half mile walking.

Warmer air temps mean more A/C load. Today's cars adjust to the ambient temp and baro pressure and they do not care. My surprise was how much a side wind can ruin mpg. And if you drive in the windy midwest, you have winds nearly all the time. Chances of a tailwind for more than a mile are nill.

And back to St. L, the I-64 bridge/s over the river seem to have many confused. Plenty of signs to tell which bridge to take but people seemed to not get it.

Have a nice day.

-chart-

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Hey Breeves, I actually have family in the Litchfield/Hillsboro area and find myself down there a few times a year. ;)

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Brian - well let me know if you're in this city that has one of the highest crime rates and sexually transmitted disease rates in the US! Of course that's just the CITY of st. louis, not the county (I live in the county). Just stay away from north county.

chart - I know what you mean, heading from IL to MO over that bridge is really confusing. Like 8 lanes, 4 of them go to the poplar street bridge, 2 go to the MLK bridge (which goes to 1 lane heading west), and the last one goes to Cahokia. Haha, I've gotten used to it. Grandparents live in O'Fallon IL and I see them every few weeks, just a half hour drive. It is pretty cool seeing the arch when you drive over that bridge, I take it for granted now.

When I had my HAI on I noticed a serious drop in performance! Yes A/C load was higher. This summer was SO HOT! At least my A/C works great and is pretty ice cold! I found bigger engines have better A/C (of course not always true). The 17' U-Haul I drove to move my mom had the best A/C I've ever witnessed in a car! It was great! SO COLD! It had a Ford V10!

Edited by breeves002

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Colder air should cause a decrease in mpg but an increase in power. The reason is the density of the air. As the air gets colder it gets denser. This means more air is sucked into the engine which means more fuel has to be added to avoid a lean condition. As a result mpg's go down but power goes up.

When the air is warmer the opposite is true. Warm air means less air is pulled in which means less fuel is added to prevent a rich condition. Power goes down but mpg's go up.

At least that's how it should work in theory. Lots of factors can change the outcome.

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Colder air should cause a decrease in mpg but an increase in power. The reason is the density of the air. As the air gets colder it gets denser. This means more air is sucked into the engine which means more fuel has to be added to avoid a lean condition. As a result mpg's go down but power goes up.

When the air is warmer the opposite is true. Warm air means less air is pulled in which means less fuel is added to prevent a rich condition. Power goes down but mpg's go up.

At least that's how it should work in theory. Lots of factors can change the outcome.

Well, I understand it a little differently. Colder air = denser air, which does mean more is ingested by the engine on each intake stroke, improving the volumetric efficiency. This does mean a little more fuel, to maintain the AFR, but also means you use less throttle. Less throttle = less air = less fuel. The mileage should improve as the air gets colder, along with the power available.

To maintain a certain speed requires a certain amount of power. When the engine makes more power (per cycle) you use less pedal to maintain that certain speed, so the mileage improves.

My take.

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Well, I understand it a little differently. Colder air = denser air, which does mean more is ingested by the engine on each intake stroke, improving the volumetric efficiency. This does mean a little more fuel, to maintain the AFR, but also means you use less throttle. Less throttle = less air = less fuel. The mileage should improve as the air gets colder, along with the power available.

To maintain a certain speed requires a certain amount of power. When the engine makes more power (per cycle) you use less pedal to maintain that certain speed, so the mileage improves.

My take.

Hmm now I want to test this. I haven't had the mpg display on for a while since it was getting rather depressing seeing the numbers always go down.

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Both of those make sense. I agree you use more throttle when the air is warmer since there is less power. I have noticed that lowers mpg.

Denser air = more oxygen to burn :D

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Well, I understand it a little differently. Colder air = denser air, which does mean more is ingested by the engine on each intake stroke, improving the volumetric efficiency. This does mean a little more fuel, to maintain the AFR, but also means you use less throttle. Less throttle = less air = less fuel. The mileage should improve as the air gets colder, along with the power available.

To maintain a certain speed requires a certain amount of power. When the engine makes more power (per cycle) you use less pedal to maintain that certain speed, so the mileage improves.

My take.

Modern cars adjust the fuel to match the mass air flow and trim with O2 sensing so it does not care what the temp, baro pressure, or altitude is within it's working range. It has very close to the same efficiency and mormal opearations. Max HP is greater with more dense air.

The A/C can make a huge difference. I have seen over 4mpg difference on a hot July day with a hot car sitting is the sun, then driven up to the level Interstate and for ~10 miles showing 18mpg until the cabin gets cool enough for the A/C to cut back then the mpg goes up to ~25mpg. A/C load is highest with hot outside, hot inside, and humid inside. Once the cabin is cool and dry, two of these items goes to lower power consumption.

Just my $0.02 worth.

-chart-

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Well, I understand it a little differently. Colder air = denser air, which does mean more is ingested by the engine on each intake stroke, improving the volumetric efficiency. This does mean a little more fuel, to maintain the AFR, but also means you use less throttle. Less throttle = less air = less fuel. The mileage should improve as the air gets colder, along with the power available.

To maintain a certain speed requires a certain amount of power. When the engine makes more power (per cycle) you use less pedal to maintain that certain speed, so the mileage improves.

My take.

Modern cars adjust the fuel to match the mass air flow and trim with O2 sensing so it does not care what the temp, baro pressure, or altitude is within it's working range. It has very close to the same efficiency and mormal opearations. Max HP is greater with more dense air.

The A/C can make a huge difference. I have seen over 4mpg difference on a hot July day with a hot car sitting is the sun, then driven up to the level Interstate and for ~10 miles showing 18mpg until the cabin gets cool enough for the A/C to cut back then the mpg goes up to ~25mpg. A/C load is highest with hot outside, hot inside, and humid inside. Once the cabin is cool and dry, two of these items goes to lower power consumption.

Just my $0.02 worth.

-chart-

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Well, I understand it a little differently. Colder air = denser air, which does mean more is ingested by the engine on each intake stroke, improving the volumetric efficiency. This does mean a little more fuel, to maintain the AFR, but also means you use less throttle. Less throttle = less air = less fuel. The mileage should improve as the air gets colder, along with the power available.

To maintain a certain speed requires a certain amount of power. When the engine makes more power (per cycle) you use less pedal to maintain that certain speed, so the mileage improves.

My take.

Modern cars adjust the fuel to match the mass air flow and trim with O2 sensing so it does not care what the temp, baro pressure, or altitude is within it's working range. It has very close to the same efficiency and mormal opearations. Max HP is greater with more dense air.

The A/C can make a huge difference. I have seen over 4mpg difference on a hot July day with a hot car sitting is the sun, then driven up to the level Interstate and for ~10 miles showing 18mpg until the cabin gets cool enough for the A/C to cut back then the mpg goes up to ~25mpg. A/C load is highest with hot outside, hot inside, and humid inside. Once the cabin is cool and dry, two of these items goes to lower power consumption.

Just my $0.02 worth.

-chart-

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